[blvdbuzzard]

I am looking into a larger caliber rifle. I have my .22 that clovers the shot at 100 yards. I also have my Mini 14 .223, M44 7.62X54R, 8MM. They shoot just fine. I am looking for something like a 308, 30-06 or something with some serious power. I was looking at a HOWA Axioum. It looks good but the 100 yard best was about an inch group of 3, I want something better then that.

I was also looking at a Savage in 308.

http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/78301
http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/78507
http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/78352
http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/43546
http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/26430
http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/78556

Savage has some good looking rifles. I have not shot one so I do not know how good they are.

Either one cost an arm and leg to shoot so I will be adding it to my reloading box.

Any input you have will help me know what to look for in a rifle.


Thanks.

Dru.

[model99er]

Dru,

I'm quite fond of Savage rifles; they might not be they best lookers, but they are quite accurate.

For myself or others to give you advice ... what sort of terrain, game, or distances you plan on hunting ??


When you do order yours, feel free to order either one of these ..

http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/78494
or
http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/52925

... for me !!


99er

[Mongojoe]

Buzz, my friend... I've known you longer than anyone else on the computer. You were the first friend I made when I came online...so you have known me long enough to know that I always have an opinion, and, "I'm not afraid to use it"...LOLOL..... So, here it is....

I own several SAVAGE rifles, and all of them are excellent shooters. I also have several friends who own SAVAGE rifles in various chamberings, and theirs too are all quite accurate. In fact, in my life I have never met a SAVAGE rifle that wasn't a fine shooter right out of the box...and I can't say that about other, "Big Name, more expencive" brands I have known... Were I asked flat out what is "the most accurate out-of-the-box rifle", I'd say there are always individual exceptions...but...overall, I'd pick the SAVAGE bolt guns every jump out the chute........ The Model 99's are also fine shooters, but it's becoming more and more diffficult, and expencive, to find a good one.
*********************************************

As for chamberings... Well, I'm a .308 Winchester fan... Plenty of power for anything in North America (with the possible exception of the great bears. The .308 will work for them, but, personally, for grizzlys and/or polar bears, I'd prefer something shooting a larger diameter bullet and with the word "Magnum" tacked on the end of it.)... An inherently accurate cartridge, with lighter bullets the .308 Winchester shoots about as flat as a .270, but, has the advantage of a larger diameter bullet. For all practical purposes it is simply a "short-action .30-06" (which is what it was originally created to be), but, with considerably less recoil than the .30-06... And being the most popular short-action big game cartridge literally worldwide, you can get ammo for it anywhere in the world ammo is sold.

Quote from "THE RELOAD BENCH": ....... "The .308 Winchester has won more benchrest matches than any other cartridge above the 6mm caliber. And continues to win more Hunter class benchrest matches than all other cartridges combined. The .308 is also one of our most popular big game cartridges, not only in the U.S. but in many other countries as well."

Like I say, I'm a .308 Winchester Fan... Now, I only own one rifle chambered for the .308 Winchester...and, of course, It's a SAVAGE 110.
***********************************

By the way... I looked at your rifle links up there...and I would not bother with a "muzzle break" on a .308. That's just extra money spent that you could use for more ammo, and the .308's recoil is really not that bad anyway....... By the way...if you are expecting a "holocost"...have you considered adding a good shotgun to your "arsenal"? .... At shorter ranges it doesn't get much better than a 12 gag. stoked with 3-inch, 0 or 00 Buck, for ruining a bad guy's day.

[blvdbuzzard]

Not that I am a paranoid person by nature, I am just looking at what I have on hand to protect myself in the event I need to. It got real scary out here when the riots happened after the Rodney King trial. I can imagine what it would be like after say a Katrina, Hugo type of natural disaster.

My 8mm is a great shooting gun. It kicks like a mule on fire. Has serious punch. It also holds about 2 to 3 inch groups at 100. I can hit a 10X10 target at 200 yards without much effort. So I could use it to hit center of mass at up to about 400 yards. I just have not had a place I can try it out that far.

My M44 is also a good shooting gun. It is a 7.62X54R and also kicks HARD. I was popping 6 inch steel circles at 200 yards with it. SO I could also hit center of mass at 400 yards. It is also HEAVY. It weighs in around 10 pounds.

Neither are super accurate guns. They are also nothing I want to carry for any distance. Also they are not that good with a scope and bi-pod. They are good for what they are.

I figure where I am up on the hill, I need to be able to reach out a ways to keep the bad guys away.

I will be paying off a lower receiver that looks like this one. I still have to get the upper. That is going to be another $500.00 plus. Depends on what I want to put on it.

http://www.riflegear...ible-stock.aspx

Right now I have a mini 14, (2) .22LR's, 12 gauge, 16 gauge, M44, 8MM Mauser, Model 94 30-30, Ruger P-89 9MM, Hi-point 9MM and soon to be a AR-15.

As I was looking though the list of Savage rifles I did see

http://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/52924

After I got my Mini-14, it is stainless and synthetic stock. I have grown to like that the stock never warps, chips, cracks. The stainless parts never rust, pit. They are the all weather guns. SO I am a fan of the black and silver guns.

I am looking at getting a Mossberg 590A1 tactical shot gun. It is a short barreled shot gun with a pistol grip stock. It has a rail for a red dot or holo sight. It goes for about $600.00 to $700.00 out here.

Right now if I had to grab and run, I would grab my Mini-14, and Ruger P-89 9MM. They both are good guns. But neither excels in any area but are great all around guns.

I am shopping so I will not be buying tomorrow, but will be soon.


Dru.

P.S. Mongo, Never knew you had an opinion on anything The problem is Mongo, you are mostly correct. That is what gets them.

[DJnRF]

In looking for an accurate rifle, it sounds to me that
you already have some pretty good shooters. What you
have now is enough for just about any need for anyone
other than a serious competition shooter, or a military
sniper.

What gets me is the fact that people think in terms of
military combat against great hordes of enemy, when in
reality this is not the case, nor will be in our society
today. What is possible is small gangs, usually less
than fifty, and seldom all at the same spot at the same
time. Also what is not realized is that any encounter
with a sizable group will be within a few yards. Unless
a person is really good at combat pistol, the averages
are that most shots he can get off will be a complete
miss. (20 year survey by the FBI showing that over 90%
of the time such 'shootouts' happened within seven
yards, and 97% of the time were a complete miss.)
Besides, what handgun today holds the couple of
hundred rounds you would need in such a situation?
Not even the old Broomhandle had a magazine that
large. Plus, not even a riot gun would be much help
in that situation.

Next is the situation where there could be a sizable
gang that is out to do whatever damage, and harm they
can think of against whomever they wish. If they are
at some distance from me, I would not be so dumb as
to give them my position by shooting at them. With
any distance involved, I would much prefer to take
the time it would take them to get to where I was
to vacate the area. One person, or even a half dozen
is not enough to take on a large group. That one, or
the few will always be overcome. What good does that
serve?

Any weapon chosen must be one that can be handled
fast, with an accuracy more by the shooter for close
combat. Practice must be done at close range for
speed, and accuracy. It is more of a 'point and shoot'
rather than aim, and fire. It is to be sudden, and
serious without mistakes. The police combat pistol
course, or the military trainfire with the pop-up
targets are the best for this. Even the short, snub
.38 is good enough for most of this type of shooting.
Whereas the accuracy of the snub isn't great, it does
wonders at the range most needed of seven yards.
When the range is fifty and more yards, a person has
the time for a better aimed shot. Beyond that I would
either seek better cover, camouflage or completely
vacate the area. Should it become absolutely necessary
to shoot at some greater distance, it is advisable to
never shoot beyond one, or two hundred yards as you
would have plenty of time to get away from harm with
more distance. So, any rifle shooting accuracy need not
need more than a .223.

I personally like the .308, or even the 30-06, but
even my personal likes for these are not necessary
unless you are a sniper. Even then, you would have
to have real good camouflage, cover, concealment,
and after your shot to an intended target, you leave.
Never stay in the one place under such situations as
large group incursion. To try to protect some place
is absolute stupidity, and can cost you dearly.
I call your attention to words of a famous general
of WW2: "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the
stupidity of man." (George S. Patton)

Don't look for weapons of 'mass destruction' for
any type of personal protection. You can't carry
everything, so get what is easiest to carry along
with the many other things you will probably need
in catastrophic situations. A convoy would be nice,
but I doubt you would have time to get one to help.
Not even a sniper team who shoot very accurately
would ever sit in one place to make themselves a
target. Even though they carry two rifles, and
usually a pistol, they aren't that dumb.

My speaking on this is from personal knowledge
based upon a lot of training, and experience in
these very things.

[blvdbuzzard]

I do not believe I would try to do the last stand type of situation. I think running today and living tomorrow is a good way of keeping out of trouble.

Just thinking if I have to shoot something, the 308 has more punch them my AR-15, Mini-14 and would have a scope so I should be able to hit what I point it at. Also would like to take a trip and see if I could get an Elk. That would need more then my .223 rifles and I am not sure I could get close enough to use iron sights on an Elk.

DJ, you have put a lot of good information there for me.

Where I live, you can not just walk through the brush. It is to high and to tough. You have to walk the roads or trails. That gives you good advantage to thin the numbers as you run for the hills.

I am sort of thinking it is like a fire extinguisher. I hope I never need it, but will be glad if I have it.

Thanks.

Dru.

[DJnRF]

blvdbuzzard, on 02 November 2009 - 07:57 PM, said:

I do not believe I would try to do the last stand type of situation. I think running today and living tomorrow is a good way of keeping out of trouble.

Just thinking if I have to shoot something, the 308 has more punch them my AR-15, Mini-14 and would have a scope so I should be able to hit what I point it at. Also would like to take a trip and see if I could get an Elk. That would need more then my .223 rifles and I am not sure I could get close enough to use iron sights on an Elk.

DJ, you have put a lot of good information there for me.

Where I live, you can not just walk through the brush. It is to high and to tough. You have to walk the roads or trails. That gives you good advantage to thin the numbers as you run for the hills.

I am sort of thinking it is like a fire extinguisher. I hope I never need it, but will be glad if I have it.

Thanks.

Dru.

You are sure right about the .223 not being the rifle to
use against the larger game. To bring down large game
with the .223 would require an absolutely perfect shot.
The quickest kill would be in the eye, and through the
brain. A perfect heart shot wouldn't let them run too
far, but you still might have a way to go to retrieve
your kill.

I still would not want to shoot at an enemy when trying
to evade them. That defeats the 'evade and escape'
concept. Now, if I were in wide, open space where I
could see them, AND they could see me, shooting might be
a necessity. However, with dense brush, or a forested
area, I would use that to my advantage. Even though
they might know I was there someplace .... that is the
idea. They 'might' know I was 'someplace'. I would just
take pain to insure they never knew exactly where that
'someplace' was. To take a shot is akin to sending up
a flare aaying, "Here I am". It is just the nature of
man to want to take action. The real problem is knowing
the proper action in any given situation.

In the sniper school we were always taught in exactly
the same way as as is taught in emergency medicine, and
emergency response. "Don't make yourself a victim." To
do that serves no one, and merely adds to the list of
victims.

Hit and evade tactics are good. That can be a benefit.
But, you only have 'one shot' before you use whatever
cover, concealment, and hopefully good camouflage to
evade, and escape to find another good place where
you can take another shot. The principle of 'fire,
and maneuver' work ok for a large military force in
combat, but are useless to a small team, or just one
individual.

Whereas I have never done it for play, I think that
one that uses the concept I have mentioned would be
really great in a paintball contest. With the short
ranges used in paintball guns a person would really
get good with enough practice in the principle of
evasion, and escape. Of course, a ghille suit would
be even a better edge. If you want to learn it well,
do a two against you paintball contest. Once you get
that good, you would make your two 'kills' of your
opponents very easy. In my days of doing this type
of 'practice' we used blanks, but those are dangerous.
Especially since we used the 30-06. You had to be
at a good range away so as to not injure someone.
Of course, we were already sniper class shooters,
so the range was usually not an issue as we always
took our shots from a good distance. The only
problem was when we were in dense brush where you
can't see far. Finding an area of shorter brush
where a good view is possible while prone, or in
a lightly forested area was what you seek when
evading just enough for a 'hit, and run'.

As in all things, practice, practice, practice.
When becoming a sniper, shooting every day,
practicing every principle of stealth, and
evasion is what it takes. For three and a half
years I fired everyday. One gets very good
that way.

I am old now, and hadn't fired in some years.
I recently started again. I write on, lecture
on, and teach survival now, and have gone out
to practice this quite a bit over the last
fifteen years, but never did shooting other
than the police combat. Again, I am now
working on my other rifle, and pistol skills.
Even though I have taught hunting skills, and
shooting for that for the LE Div. of Conservation
here, I don't hunt. What I do is to practice
precision target at all ranges, and that even
includes the combat precision of a sniper. I
will do that until my ole bod no longer lets
me. Course, I don't expect that will last
so long now. At least I hope I have a couple
of good years for it. lol

For your thinking, it is great to look to
all the possibilities. Never think of the
degree of probability that something happening,
as those might be very low. The possibility is
always 50/50. "Expect the best! Prepare for
the worst! Then, take what comes."

(Golly! I guess it doesn't take a genius to
tell that I am a writer. I always tend to
write rather lengthy missives.)

[DJnRF]

Oh, I almost forgot.
Most any rifle you get these days can be a good
shooter if you pay attention to the particular
barrel you get for it. Each manufacturer has
different grades of barrels available, but some
are not so great on just their 'stock' rifles.
The Remington rifles do have some great ones
right out of the box. Some of the Howa's are
also ok.

The main thing is what you do extra to the rifle
after you get it. Sights, barrel bedding, work on
the action, etc. Any time you can get a rifle to
hold all shots at 200 yards within the dimensions
of the size of a quarter, you are doing very well.
At 200 yards a precision shooter will have all
his shots grouped within the size of a nickel.
Of course, that is an exceptional shooter, with
an exceptional rifle.

[blvdbuzzard]

One of the reason I want to reach out and touch them at a great distance, I am not able to run, I can hobble, stumble, fall, crawl. I also do not think I could leave Mom at home to fend for herself. Being she is almost 80, not sure she is up to crashing through the brush.

I know there are 4 pretty damn good shots right here. Myself, my neighbor Bill, and my high ground neighbor Mike and Chris. We are all armed pretty well so far. I was trained to shot as a young kid by a Marine sharp shooter. I do remember what he showed me. That bastard could shoot. Hit a nats ass at 100 yards with a Winchester 30-30 and iron sights.

I may be just paranoid, but am looking at how some one would try to get to my house. I have the west pretty well opened up clear, not much to hide behind. The main road in, they would have to get past me and Bill. From the north would be between Mike, Chris and my self. Same as if they tried to come from the north west.

I figure if I lay low, watch how much noise and light I make. Try not to show myself, sort of look like a burned out place no one lives at. That would be the best defense.

Just thinking out load. Trying to get as much information as I can get.


Dru.

[DJnRF]

blvdbuzzard, on 03 November 2009 - 09:07 PM, said:

One of the reason I want to reach out and touch them at a great distance, I am not able to run, I can hobble, stumble, fall, crawl. I also do not think I could leave Mom at home to fend for herself. Being she is almost 80, not sure she is up to crashing through the brush.

I know there are 4 pretty damn good shots right here. Myself, my neighbor Bill, and my high ground neighbor Mike and Chris. We are all armed pretty well so far. I was trained to shot as a young kid by a Marine sharp shooter. I do remember what he showed me. That bastard could shoot. Hit a nats ass at 100 yards with a Winchester 30-30 and iron sights.

I may be just paranoid, but am looking at how some one would try to get to my house. I have the west pretty well opened up clear, not much to hide behind. The main road in, they would have to get past me and Bill. From the north would be between Mike, Chris and my self. Same as if they tried to come from the north west.

I figure if I lay low, watch how much noise and light I make. Try not to show myself, sort of look like a burned out place no one lives at. That would be the best defense.

Just thinking out load. Trying to get as much information as I can get.


Dru.

LOL
I am also not so sure of crashing through the brush these
days either. And, like you, I am pretty good at stumbling,
falling, and all that sort of stuff. I was once a young,
reckless, idiot, and even jumped out of perfectly good
airplanes. (didn't really want to, but had no choice back
in those days.) Now, I am no longer young. I am no longer
reckless. We shall not discuss that third option.

At any rate, having torn up my knees, broken my back, and
destroyed both elbows so that reconstruction was needed,
I have to watch the way I do things today. I still get
around well, but must always have the awareness that my
knees could give out on me without much, if any, notice.
I have the back pretty well under control. It took some
years, but I finally learned the 'mind over matter' trick
to keep from extreme spasms, and lockup. It used to cause
me to lose all control, seize, and I would collapse in
terrible pain. I couldn't laugh, cry, or even breathe
when that happened. It actually took me several years
to be able to overcome the problem with what I had been
taught. Now it is totally controlled mentally to prevent
it. It works!

Your mom isn't that much older than myself, or my wife.
Plus, we are both legally disabled in our retirement.
We both have managed to keep ourselves fit enough to be
able to do most things. I constantly see people only
half our age that can't do as well, and they don't even
have any problems. I guess it is just that mentality or
'once a Ranger, always a Ranger', and my wife just
followed my lead.

You have the right idea about keeping a low profile under
emergency conditions. Try to also keep your site as
inconspicuous as possible, but with at least a 100 yard
clear field of fire. Another trick would be to set up
a remotely controlled diversion. This usually requires
either a large tract of land of yours, or another area
where you can mount some type of device that would act
to divert the attention of someone to go in that
direction away from your home before they were able to
see it well. The diversion could be something as simple
as a very large tree limb that was held in place off the
ground until you triggered something to allow it to fall.
Hopefully you could even get it to roll when it fell.
Maybe a large wood ball held in place by a couple of
boards on either side at the base. The boards could be
held there by a couple of holes drilled to insert some
large caliber rounds with wire wraps around them. A small
device to heat the wires around the rounds, triggered by
a cheap radio receiver would cause them to 'pop' and
release the boards to allow the ball to fall. It would
roll when it fell. Say, something the size of a medicine
ball. A moving noise always attracts attention.

There are many ways to create a diversion trap. You are
only limited by your own imagination. Even a camera trap
could be set to trigger a device instead of taking a
picture. You can get those that are remotely controlled
by a signal from your computer. There is just no end to
all that can be done.

If it appears that trying to remain unobtrusive doesn't
work, you would have no other choice than to vacate the
area. If your 'enemy' is only a couple, or so, and it
isn't appearing likely that they would be missed to cause
more to come, you could take them out, but don't count
on this unless you are sure they won't be missed by
others who knew where they were.

Just like a fire, you must make your plan, and at least
one alternate plan on how to vacate if needed. Given
enough distance from those who would be coming, you
would have time to move out quietly, and at your own
pace. Of course, most neglect proper plans that cover
all the details the way they should. Details such as
places to 'hole up' in some concealed spot close to
home, and a meeting place in case you need to meet up
with others who may have come from somewhere else, or
have gotten lost. I used to have a 'Fort Mole Hole'
that I had a very short distance from my home. It was
concealed well, underground, where I could remain for
quite a while. It wasn't large. Only about 6 ft by 6 ft,
but about 5'6" high, and had a roof of treated 2 X 6's
covered by treated plywood, and covered by a foot of
dirt. The 5.5 ft high room had a trap door with steps
leading down to the room. The hardest part was building
it fast so no one noticed what I was doing, or had.
It took me two days to have done, and completely
camouflaged. I had even transplanted weeds along with
a bunch of what looked like normal 'thatch'. I had a
very small evergreen on the door that stayed in place
when I opened the door.

Use your imagination, but plan well.

[blvdbuzzard]

DJ, you sounds as bad as I am. I broke my right knee. If you put your right leg straight out, now move your foot to the left, so the lower leg is at a 90 degree angle to you upper leg. That is how I broke mine. It took other peoples body parts to put it back together.

Left knee was torn up at work. They had to take a hot dog sized piece of meat out of the upper ham string muscle. Stretched the ligaments ans just twisted it.


Lower back I broke L2. Not fun. If I do not watch it I too get the spasms that put me to the ground. I need to stretch and exercise to keep it from happening. i was at work and I dropped like a rock. People just freaked. I did not take a breathe for about 3 minutes. I was blue and just a solid ball of pain. I was about to pass out when it relaxed enough to get a little air. I was out for 4 days. I had the shots in the back and all sorts of drugs. Nothing seemed to do it. I did try acupuncture. That did work pretty well. Some of the needles felt like they were about the size of a railroad spike. After he had about 50 needle in me, it was like some flipped a switch. I just went limp. That was the first time in a long time I slept without pain.

I may be 43, but I have the body of a guy that is 90.


Dru.

[DJnRF]

blvdbuzzard, on 04 November 2009 - 09:23 PM, said:

DJ, you sounds as bad as I am. I broke my right knee. If you put your right leg straight out, now move your foot to the left, so the lower leg is at a 90 degree angle to you upper leg. That is how I broke mine. It took other peoples body parts to put it back together.

Left knee was torn up at work. They had to take a hot dog sized piece of meat out of the upper ham string muscle. Stretched the ligaments ans just twisted it.


Lower back I broke L2. Not fun. If I do not watch it I too get the spasms that put me to the ground. I need to stretch and exercise to keep it from happening. i was at work and I dropped like a rock. People just freaked. I did not take a breathe for about 3 minutes. I was blue and just a solid ball of pain. I was about to pass out when it relaxed enough to get a little air. I was out for 4 days. I had the shots in the back and all sorts of drugs. Nothing seemed to do it. I did try acupuncture. That did work pretty well. Some of the needles felt like they were about the size of a railroad spike. After he had about 50 needle in me, it was like some flipped a switch. I just went limp. That was the first time in a long time I slept without pain.

I may be 43, but I have the body of a guy that is 90.


Dru.

Well Dru, I have been able to cope well with the problems,
and didn't really think much about them, or slow down much
for that matter. At least I didn't until last year.

Last year I decided that since I hadn't gotten a really
good physical in many years that I should probably get
one. Being a licensed medic for over 40 years, and even
with a specialty in ACLS, I always just kind of watched
my own health. Not a thing seemed to be any real health
issue, but not having had a good physical in so long, I
did go to my doctor for one. Medicare doesn't pay for
them as a rule, but they do allow one to be paid when
you first go on Medicare. Since I never used that option,
I called to find out if I could still get one. They gave
me the go-ahead, so I did.

My doctor is one that specialized in emergency medicine
in his internship, but since has gone into general
practice. I like the way he runs his office like an
ER. A person can even get in without an appointment,
and even if they have never seen him before, still
get in to him within just a few minutes. He gave me
one of the best physical exams I have ever had. I
passed it with no problem. Nothing seemed to be any
problem. However, I had read about a brand new test.
It was a new type of CT Scan that checked the heart.
I told him that I also thought I should have that as
well. He called to schedule it for me.

The results of the exam/scan were not good. They do
a scoring method of what they find in the pictures.
When the score is 401, and above, the risk is listed
as "Extremely Critical". My score was 2,706!

That doctor could hardly believe that I had never
had any signs, or symptoms of any kind. He accepted it
that due to my specialty in ACLS, I was telling him
the truth. However, I was then scheduled for further
tests. Those tests were an all day affair. They also
did not come out very well. The problem is that they
just don't know exactly what to do yet.

As a result, I have been told to slow down; not to do
many of the things I do, and to get more rest. Well,
no matter what time I get to bed, I will still wake
up raring to go in 3. 1/2 hours. Also, I have no
help in doing all I need to do, and sure can't pay
for help. Many things I do are things that even
require special knowledge, training, and equipment.
I have managed to slow down some in doing things,
but it is sure very frustrating as I have always
wanted to do everything instantly, if not sooner.
I suppose that if I can't stop some things that I
might not have many years (months, or even days)
left. Who knows? My doctors, and I sure don't know.

I am about ready at this hour (6.00 AM) to go out
to change the fluid and filter in my car transmission.
Then, I will install a new ignition switch, and also
a new headlight switch. (I picked them up yesterday)
Afterwards, I will get myself cleaned up to head out
to a gun show. My club sponsors one each year, and
I will have to be there to help out. I belong to
the Midwest Gun Collectors Assn. here. (Unfortunately,
I am also going to have to start helping out at our
ranges. They are a constant battle for upkeep to
keep them nice. We also sponsor a couple of range
shows for the public each year. That draws in a bunch
of dealers, and manufacturers. We had Remington, S&W,
Sierra, and Armalite this last time, not to mention
several dealers from Central IL. We must have had over
10,000 visitors that day.)

Good thing the wife is gone for a few days. I even
have several projects laying around the house that I
want to finish this weekend. lol

Well, I had best get out and get to work. I'll let you
know if I find anything good at the show. lol

Take care,
Dave.

[JDECS]

DJnRF, on 03 November 2009 - 11:25 AM, said:

Most any rifle you get these days can be a good
shooter...
The Remington rifles ...
right out of the box. Some of the Howa's are
also ok.

and you'll go a long way to beat the Savage line. Their team just took a major championship with *all* out-of-the-box, no tuning or handloads whatsoever.

[blvdbuzzard]

Well DJ, you better take care of you heart, you only have 1, and it is sort of important. You loose it, not much you can do without it. We want you around for a lot longer

I am pretty much alone in my yard wok too. I have to watch how I do things or I will be messed up for a week. I step wrong I go down, that could twist my back and I am now in total pain. It does not take much to get the vertebra to move. Then I loose feeling in my leg. Not fun.

Dru.

[DJnRF]

blvdbuzzard, on 07 November 2009 - 03:08 PM, said:

It does not take much to get the vertebra to move.
Then I loose feeling in my leg. Not fun.
Dru.

That is indicative of a compressed disc. When that happens
the disc will continue to degenerate. However, there is a
procedure that will replace the bad disc with a new cushion
to make a new disc. They actually, entirely cut out the
injured disc, and then inject a fluid type disc that hardens
like the cartilage one they removed. From all I have seen
on this it works very well. You end up with a totally new
disc without any of the calcification that comes with an
injury to joints in the body.

At times when the disc itself has eroded away badly, they
will even apply a bone powder that acts as a bone graft.
They use this powder in a paste form to they can shape it
in the way needed to replace the bone loss.

The point is that they now have a better way than complete
fusion of such damaged discs, or with the use of steel
rods. They didn't have this method available when I
broke my back so instead they allowed it to form a
calcific fusion instead of medical fusion, or the rods.
I have T5, 6 & 7 fused that way. It has caused me a
slight 'hunch' in that area, but it doesn't bother me
much these days. (But it sure is hard to stand at a
good, straight position of attention when I am in
uniform. lol)

You might do some looking into that procedure. There are
not many surgeons that do it yet, and some of the
'old timers' don't even pay much attention to it. Some
other of the 'young' ones are just looking for what
money they can make on the surgeries they can do. They
just don't like to give up a patient to another. But,
take it from me, you are best to get this type of
surgery done at your age now as it is not as much
help when you get to my age. Oh! Also, the surgery is
almost like an outpatient surgery as it doesn't
require as much hospital time, or is it anywhere near
as 'touchy' a surgery on the patinet. (They can even
do knees in this way as well.)

Dave.

[fatty chatty]

I didn't read thru all the replies Dru but will say that IMO you can't go wrong with a savage, either 30-06, or 270 (which I shoot) Put it this way, takes me several years to go thru a box of 20 270 shells the thing is very accurate, I give the savages a big thumbs up.

[hemmy]

surely you jest fatty.a dude no longer with us posted yesterday that savage is junk.
I read that a 270-thirty odd six savage is one of the most accurate guns.not the best made or most expensive but accurate.
In just my opinion the savage gives you a good price for your buck.

[blvdbuzzard]

Savage it is. I am looking at the All weather warrior, fluted stainless barrel and black synthetic stock. Still leaning towards the .308. Will not rule out a 30-06.

Just trying to decide what gun next. I could use a hand gun, also a new shot gun and a good rifle. Choices are hard.


Dru.

[hemmy]

congrats.

tell ya what,for the money I love my 500 moss turkey gun.short barrel for great grouse hunting yet can use for turkey with a good pattern.

[fatty chatty]

Ditto on the Moss 500, shoots a great pattern for turkey every year, you may have to toy with different chokes unless they send a full one with it.