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Best brand Model 1911? Why?


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#1 Uncle Buck

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:13 AM

I know I will be buying a model 1911 in the 45 cal? What brand is the best? Would you buy the 22 conversion kit or buy a Ruger 22 semi pistol with the 1911 grips?

#2 Mongojoe

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 12:26 PM

I don't own a 1911 style pistol, altho I have wanted one since I carried one in the service....but I do own a RUGER 22/45 (the model that is supposed to have the "feel" of a 1911) Target Model pistol...and am more than pleased with it.

#3 DJnRF

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 11:26 PM

I don't feel I am able to give reliable advice on which brand of 1911, .45 is best.
If one is buying a new replica, I don't think it matters much with what is out there.
What I have seen though (and what I am currently involved in doing) is to buy
one of the old military .45's and doing a 'rework', and 'replacement' of the parts.
It takes some time if you wish to keep the price down, but with my brand new
match barrel and bushing, a new match rear sight for and now installed on an
old slide, a new, homemade front sight blade (now soldered on and shaped but
not yet filed for accurate height) and all the rest of the parts new and ready for
installation on the frame, I only have $85 so far invested. My problem now is
that I find damage to the old frame that just won't do. I will have to find a
good 1911 A1 frame to finish the work...... all but the bluing.

As you can see, I will not have much in a match grade .45, even with the
purchase of a frame. I will consider what bluing I will use after it is all
finished and tested for accuracy. I would hate to blue it and then have to
make critical adjustments on the front sight blade, or, heaven forbid, have
to remove it and start anew on that part. (Of course, it has just taken me
six years now to get all I needed at the right price. Now, I wonder how long
it will take me to find a frame??? [at the right price, that is])



Oh, and Mongojoe, The military used the Ace .45/.22 conversion auto for training
before your time. Now and then you can still find them around. They are very
fine pieces. We had a doctor commit suicide with one some years back. Only
the chief and I knew what it was, and it was all complete. Unfortunately for me,
the chief outranked me and the doctors family gave it to him. I am still sick
over that.

#4 ButchA

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:34 AM

Uncle Buck, I have a .45 ACP and have looked at all the manufacturers and read a lot of articles about them. Here's my opinion - take it for whatever it's worth:

Colt --- The 1911 to have. The original. It all started here. B)
Kimber --- The best of the 1911 "copy/clones". Very very well made. High price tag though.
Les Baer --- A highly customized 1911 copy. Very well made. Serious price tag - even more than Kimber! :blink:
S&W --- Yup, Smith & Wesson now makes a 1911 copy. Don't know much about it though as it's new.
Springfield --- The most authentic copy of the Colt 1911 overall. Very well made and almost as legendary as Colt itself! The "GI Series" is a true replica of the famous WWII .45 ACP used for years and years and years. Springfields are also nicely priced too.
Para Ordnance --- A "double stacked" high capacity copy of the 1911. Wider body/magazine, but all the same features and performance as a true 1911 .45 ACP. Well made and reliable. Nice price too.
LLama, Firestorm, Auto Ordnance, ...etc. --- The lesser known copies, mostly made overseas. They are okay, but prone to jamming with anything but the original 230gr FMJ "ball" ammo. Cheap priced too.

I own the Para Ordnance P13 (it's a mid sized 1911 copy - a copy of the Colt Commander 1911). It has a 4.25" barrel instead of 5" - that's the only difference, aside from the double stack magazine & wider grip. It holds 13 rounds (versus 7 in normal 1911's) - 12 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber. It is a great piece and very well made. It likes Speer (CCI) Gold Dot ammo the best.

Hope this helps!

Butch A.

#5 gdcpony

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:39 PM

I have to say Kimber. You get what you pay for. I have shot most of the brands from the cheap <$300 to the match level >$2000. and two struck me as great bargains. First was a little company called Rock Island (not Rock River). My brother still uses the one I got him. For $350 and about $50 in parts it shoots with those three times its price. I loved it almost too much too give it up! The second was the one I kick myself for selling a Kimber TLERL II. The ballance was excellent, the rail gave me options for home defense, and it recoiled back rather than up with an accessory mounted to it. Full mags on target with little or no re-aim time. Unfortunately, a 3rd child made it necessary to get a bigger house and the entire collection of firearms went for the downpayment and closing. I'll make my son pay when he gets older!
But, yes, my two picks would be those two companies. I think that Rock Island is out of bussiness though. If not those, then Springfield as a last resort.

Found this link for some Rock Island's They are plain, but they shoot!
http://www.sarcoinc....slands-new.html

#6 Mongojoe

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 07:39 AM

Interesting...... I have heard of the ROCK ISLAND .45's, but I don't recall ever seeing or handleing one.

#7 Colonel

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 03:02 PM

View PostMongojoe, on Jan 3 2007, 07:04 AM, said:

Interesting...... I have heard of the ROCK ISLAND .45's, but I don't recall ever seeing or handleing one.

My newest is a Springfield Armory full size Tactical Combat model in black stainless, and I love it. I don't think you can get a better 1911 for anywhere near the price. You can look at one here:

http://www.springfie...l-1911-fs.shtml

Gerry

#8 Uncle Buck

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 12:24 AM

Thank you all for all the outstanding info on the best 1911 45's.

My dad was born in 1911 and he is still alive. He is kind of wearing out but who wouldn't at 95 1/2 years old.
Having a nice Model 1911 will be a way of paying honor to him when it's time for him to meet his maker.
Probably will become one of my favorite side arms since It will make me think of him when I am in the outdoors.
I also carried a 1911 45 in the USCG performing my duties.

Thanks again. I appreciate it.

#9 Mongojoe

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 10:32 AM

View PostColonel, on Jan 3 2007, 01:27 PM, said:

My newest is a Springfield Armory full size Tactical Combat model in black stainless, and I love it. I don't think you can get a better 1911 for anywhere near the price. You can look at one here:

http://www.springfie...l-1911-fs.shtml

Gerry

Colonel... Welcome back... Hadn't seen you around in a while.

UB...that is a very thoughtful idea..... And my best to your father... It seems that the older a person gets, the more they appreciate their parents... I was 17 when I lost my father, and many times over the years I have wished he were still here when I needed advice, or just someone to talk to.

#10 DJnRF

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 02:20 PM

View PostUncle Buck, on Jan 3 2007, 10:49 PM, said:

Thank you all for all the outstanding info on the best 1911 45's.

My dad was born in 1911 and he is still alive. He is kind of wearing out but who wouldn't at 95 1/2 years old.
Having a nice Model 1911 will be a way of paying honor to him when it's time for him to meet his maker.
Probably will become one of my favorite side arms since It will make me think of him when I am in the outdoors.
I also carried a 1911 45 in the USCG performing my duties.

Thanks again. I appreciate it.


Hi Buck!
Now, if you were wanting to get a 1911 Mod .45 in commemoration of the
birth of your dad, the one to do this is one of the original 1911 models.
That original model did not have a grip safety, or checkered grips. Also,
the hammer tang did not extend back so far over the hand. That would
be the ultimate commemorative model. It might be a hard find, but the
price wouldn't be any more 'stupid' than the price of new today.

#11 Uncle Buck

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 09:53 PM

I was taking a gander at the Kimbers at Gander Mountain today. They start off about $699.00 and go up from there.

DJnRF I will have to keep my eye out for an original 1911. Thank you for pointing out that the price maybe about the same. I will have to visit a gun show and just see what they are selling for.

Something on how guns get there names. Of course we all know the 1911 is the year it was made.

The 30/06. Kind of the same thing. A 30 caliber, that the 30 portion of the designation and the 06 is the year 1906.


Now take the 30/30. Again the first 30 is the 30 caliber but the second 30 represent it use to be loaded with 30 grains of black powder. Hence the name 30/30 was derived.

#12 DJnRF

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    'A little bit of knowledge is dangerous while a lot leads one astray from the intended idea.'

Posted 13 January 2007 - 02:29 AM

[quote name='Uncle Buck' date='Jan 12 2007, 08:18 PM' post='30330']

"Something on how guns get there names. Of course we all know the 1911 is the year it was made."


Ahhhhh, but did you know that the 45 was actually made in 1905?
There were some changes made to the original that were incorporated
in the 'Model of 1911' which we came to think of as the first year it was made.
The .45 auto was even used by the military before 1911 in fights with the
Moro Indians. We had regularly used the .38, but found that with the
drugged Moros who believed it a '7th Heaven' for them if they killed a
white man just wouldn't go down when hit with the .38. We lost a lot of
men until one soldier used a .45 and found that it could drop even the
most heavily drugged person before the men were chopped up with the
big knives carried by the indians. The military bought up a bunch of
those original .45s at that time. I am not quite sure if it was formally
adopted until 1909 or 1911, but I am reasonably sure that it was before
the 1911 model. I do know it was the military that caused the major
changes to the weapon to make the 1911 model.

I hope that I can find a .45 frame I can afford this year so I can finally
finish the target model I am in the process of building. I get sick when
I think that George had several frames in our office and I didn't have
the foresight to get one from him before he died. In fact, the only
thing I did get from him was the first eight chapters of a ten chapter
book he was writing at the time. I have thought about ghost writing
the final two chapters and sending it in to publish. His books always
sold well. I would always review and edit as well as test firing weapons
he would write about, but never did any writing for him then. I just
know his style. We made a pair. He was an ordnance expert, and I
was a military firearms expert. His editorial research assistant was who
later became my wife just before he died.

#13 Uncle Buck

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 09:09 PM

Oh No! 1905 now I can not get one to honor my dad. I think I will get one to honor my Uncle Jack. He was born in 1905. Just Joking. I'm still getting one to honor my dad. LOL LOL

Thank you for providing the interesting history of the 1911. Now I know why they went to the 45 instead of the 38.

Now I wonder how the 9MM Bereta is performing for our Armed Forces?

#14 gdcpony

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 10:56 PM

Don't ask. There is a reason the special ops still use 1911.

#15 Mongojoe

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:50 AM

View PostUncle Buck, on Jan 13 2007, 07:34 PM, said:

Now I wonder how the 9MM Bereta is performing for our Armed Forces?


The things I have been reading agree with gdcpony... And I have even read of the military considering again making a change to something with a bit more "authority"... If you notice, after the reports started coming in, alot of the police forces have moved away from the 9mm as well... Personally, with the military being limited to useing hard-ball, I thought changeing to the 9mm was a mistake back when they did it... But then I was opposed to changeing to the .223 as well, way back when.
Actually, I am kinda interested in watching to see what they do finally end up with.

#16 DJnRF

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    'A little bit of knowledge is dangerous while a lot leads one astray from the intended idea.'

Posted 15 January 2007 - 02:17 AM

I also agree with both Joe and Pony. The 9mm round is much like
the .30 Carbine round in that it has more penetrating power than
it has knock down power. Penetration and hitting power are two
different things. The very reason that the military left the .38 to
use the .45 makes the use of the 9mm a turn backwards. Even
the .38 Spcl is better than the 9mm.

One has to consider the difference with the round nose bullet as
compared to the spire point round of standard rifle and machinegun
ammo. The original 30-06 round had a tremendous amount of both
penetration and hitting power along with some shock power. The
closest thing to it these days is the .308. With lighter bullets such as
the .223 round, it uses both a spire point, and a boattail end. With
the rather large powder charge behind the bullet the round becomes
an overstabilized round. That means that it actually wobbles up and
down along the trajectory. At 100 yds that round it going to 'slap' the
target causing tremendous damage to tissue, and adding such a
tremendous shock to the body that a round striking the shoulder of
a target can sometimes cause a blood backup and rupture, or at
least shock the heart into stopping. Very devastating to the target
tissue. A shot into the upper arm can tear everything completely
off the bone leaving the arm irreparably damaged.

In a military test comparison between the .30 Carbine, and the .45,
to show the difference between penetration and hitting power the
effects were nothing short of a grandstand show. Two M1 steel pots
were set on the sand at a distance of 100 yds from the shooters.
Both the helmet and liner were used. The carbine round went
through the entire helmet and liner and buried in the sand four
feet beyond the helmet. The helmet had moved a total of 1 inch
on the sand. With the .45 the round didn't penetrate even the
first side of the helmet, but it crushed one side halfway, and
threw the helmet 21 feet. Either way, someone wearing those
helmets would have been killed, but one would have just slumpped
over while the other would have been thrown out of the way fast.

When a .45 was used in a comparison between a .44 Magnum on
suspended engine blocks, the .45 set it to swinging well. The
magnum round shattered the block and dropped the pieces to
the ground. This is the difference between hitting and shock
power. The magnum can shatter a 9 inch diameter tree while
the .45 won't hardly bury into it much.

The 9mm round goes into things farther than the .45, but has
little hitting power at any distance. AND, both are round nose
bullets. I would always prefer to knock the target down with
the punch of the .45 rather than just poke some clean holes
in it. One hit with the .45 is completely out of action, while
one hit with the 9mm could still be a threat.

There are some good .45 autos out these days that can give
the punch as well as double-action, and high capacity mags.
Those would be a much better choice for a military sidearm
than the 9mm.

One doesn't wear a pair of bib overalls to a formal, and
canversely doesn't wear a tuxedo to a foundry. Get the
best weapon for the job.

#17 Mongojoe

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 09:28 AM

View PostDJnRF, on Jan 15 2007, 12:42 AM, said:

Get the
best weapon for the job.


I totally agree... And at present, I don't believe that is the case with the main body of the military. (Altho I do realize that some "specialized units" still use the .45ACP...and...the .308 [7.62mm] NATO rounds.)................ However, I do recall reading, not long ago, that the 6.8SPC was being considered as a possible alternative to the .223 (5.56mm)...and all that would be required to do this would be a change of the upper receivers on current M-16 variants.

Then too, on the 25th of August 2006, in the GENERAL SHOOTING section, under "It appears the military is finally wakeing up"... I posted the following, concerning the possible "switch back" to the .45ACP as standard issue to our military..............................

Well, after 20 years it appears the US military is finally coming to it's sences... About 20 years ago our military, in an attempt to replace an ageing inventory of pistols, and to line up with our allies, adopted the NATO-standard 9mm Parabellum(9X19) cartridge. Seems they now realize that the results have been less than satisfactory. Restricted by the "rules of war" to "ball" ammo, they have found the 9mm to be a good penetrator...but... a poor stopper. So in August of 2005 the US Special Operations Command announced it's intent to purchase up to about 650,000 new pistols in....."surprise, surprise"... .45ACP, for use by SOCOM, and eventually, the entire armed services.... Many eliete, "first defence" units who stand the best chance of actually useing a pistol in combat, young men at the "tip of the spear", had never changed to the 9mm, and continued to use the .45ACP. Units such as the Army's Delta Force have been useing customized 1911's since it was formed. And Marine Corp Expediationary Units, or MEU (Special Operations Capable) units also used the 1911's, and actively developed and used the pistol that you can buy today, known as as the KIMBER WARRIOR........ The contract for providing these new pistols will be a very lucrative one, and a number of companies have pistols submitted for evaluation, such as BERETTA USA, SIG-ARMS, GLOCK, TAURUS, SPRINGFIELD ARMORY, SMITH AND WESSON, FNH USA, PARA ORDNANCE, and HECKLER & KOCH.
Any student of firearms history is aware of the fact that we have been thru this before, when the army changed from the single action .45 Colt, to the double-action .38 Long Colt. Then when faceing a determined enemy in the Philippines, it simply didn't preform well, and we ended up rushing the older .45 Colt guns out of storage and back into the hands of our troops.... All of which resulted in a program of development that resulted in the best service pistol and service pistol cartridge in the history of arms, the M1911 Colt in .45ACP, which served us well in two world wars, Korea, Vietnam, and numerous other conflicts around the globe throughout the troubled 20th century... The realization that quantity DOES NOT trump quality when it comes to combat arms has finally come home... And it now appears that in the near furture our troops will once again have a .45 in their holsters........................................ If they had only listened to me some 20 years ago.

#18 DJnRF

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    'A little bit of knowledge is dangerous while a lot leads one astray from the intended idea.'

Posted 15 January 2007 - 02:53 PM

Even though the military brass doesn't always listen well to the individual
soldier, or experienced 'oldies', we should at least thank the lucky stars
that they listen to our politicians even less. Political big mouths trying to
act important with no ear to the military have cost lives unnecessarily on
many occasions. Hmmmm! I wonder why it is that we only ever have a
choice of election candidates who are already the upper 8% of the
wealthy of our society? Most often these days I have begun to think that
Mortimer Snerd would be a better candidate choice for us.

#19 Colonel

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 08:55 AM

View PostMongojoe, on Jan 4 2007, 09:57 AM, said:

Colonel... Welcome back... Hadn't seen you around in a while.

UB...that is a very thoughtful idea..... And my best to your father... It seems that the older a person gets, the more they appreciate their parents... I was 17 when I lost my father, and many times over the years I have wished he were still here when I needed advice, or just someone to talk to.


Thanks, Mongo. I drop by whenever I can.

Gerry

#20 DJnRF

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    'A little bit of knowledge is dangerous while a lot leads one astray from the intended idea.'

Posted 18 January 2007 - 02:15 AM

Another case of underestimating the ammo requirements

As reported earlier this last week, some dirtbag who got pulled over in a
Routine traffic stop in Florida ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him.
The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range.
Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed.

A statewide manhunt ensued. The low-life piece of human garbage was found
Hiding in a wooded area with his gun. SWAT team officers fired and hit said
Low-life 68 times.

Now here's the kicker: Asked why they shot the guy 68 times, Polk County
Sheriff Grady Judd, told the Orlando Sentinel...get this. "That's all the bullets
We had."
God bless Sheriff Judd



Just thought I had to throw this in. lol





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